Written by Greg Fertel
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25 January 2008
So, I spent the night listening to Theo Epstein and Brian Cashman talk to a crowded theater about baseball, life, and being a young person while running a baseball team. It was an interesting experience. Unfortunately, I couldn't use a tape recorder inside the theater, but I'll share with you what I've got in my notes. I have to say one thing first though - Theo Epstein knows how to make the crowd laugh.
It was clear from the start that Cash and Theo were really good friends. They talked about their mutual admiration for each other. They met through mutual friend San Diego General Manager Kevin Towers. Of course, they are the two GMs in baseball who could never talk trades together, although Theo said "
In my first year I was naive and threw out a [trade] proposal to him. Yeah, I'm still waiting to hear back."
Theo said that aside from winning the World Series, his real goal is to "
Build organizational identity to sustain success. To have an infrastructure that's built to last." He wants to create a lasting juggernaut that will remain in place even after he leaves the organization.
Brian Cashman said that he never wanted to be a General Manager. In college, his dream was to make the big leagues (he played for Catholic University), and the Yankee job came across him by chance. Even when he was assistant GM, "
I'd look at myself and say, I never want that job", seeing how Steinbrenner treated his General Managers. His rise through the organization can actually be attributed to how tough of a boss Steinbrenner is, "
Things kept opening up because people kept getting fired."
On the pressures of being the General Manager of the win-now Yankees in the insane city of New York, Cashman gave a very astute answer. He said, "
When you try and build something, you have to build long term. I'm willing to walk through the fires of [the fans reacting to a losing season] to build long term." Good news for fans of this blog.
Theo said on the Yankee-Sox rivalry before he arrived, "
In the past, I think we were too concerned with what te Yankees were doing... an inferiority complex." Of course, he also said of Cashman, "
Every once in awhile I'll try and make a deal, watch it fail, and realize that he blocked me some how."
The conversation moved to talent evaluation and scouting. Cashman said, "
One thing we got away from... we're a baseball franchise. Our research and development is our farm system. We built teams that had success that way. We redid our scouting department after 2004. New York is such a tough place to play that playing anywhere else is like Club Med. When you import players [from other places] who've had success, they don't always transfer that success here."
Epstein was asked when the right time to promote a player was, and he said, "
Performance is important. Tools are important, but if a minor league player isn't outperforming their competition at any particular level, why bring them up? In addition to performance, these are young men... even the collegiate players... we're not just developing minor league players into big leaguers, we're putting them in the middle of a pennant race."
"
Three times a year, we outline a player's strengths and weaknesses for them. We tell them that when they move all their weaknesses to the strength column, they can be promoted."
Cashman mentioned the program that the Yankees have used over the past three years, bringing up players to New York in September to show them the ropes. He mentioned basic things like teaching them how to get to the stadium, where the entrances are, who the traveling secretary is, and how the pre-game routine works. He mentioned that the program had given them some very positive feedback.
They declined to talk much about Santana, because he was still another team's property. Cashman did say though that "
My strong recommendation is that we stick with our young pitching staff". However, talking about the free agent market, Theo said "
We consider just staying out of the free agent market this year a victory." and "
These days, the free agent market has gotten so crazy with supply and demand dynamics. [Our goal is] not to have to make something out of nothing."
On Joe Girardi, Brian Cashman was very stern. He said, "
One of the biggest challenges is that our players are used to a different style of managing and there will be adjustments. They knew Joe as a player and as a coach, but now they will have to get to know Joe as a manager. He's very methodical. He gravitates to the same way of player evaluation that the front office does. He's tough."
The audience then got a chance to ask them questions. I got in line. He was asked about the difference between former players becoming Basketball General Managers while executives rise to the top in Baseball. Cashman said that "
Basketball is very different, especially the draft and farm systems. Baseball is more international, and more complex with our farm systems. You have to understand more components of business and law."
Asked about the adjustment for players who come to the major leagues from Asia, Cashman said "
It's hardest for pitchers. Everything is different - the schedule, the seams of the ball, the hardness or softness of the mound." Theo pointed out that the idea of work or failure is drastically different for Japanese players - they sometimes work too hard to compensate for failure.
Theo was asked about the time when he walked away from the Red Sox. First off, he decided to do so on Halloween (the last night of his contract), and his friend happened to have a Guerilla suit. The press was camped outside one section of the offices, so he got into the Guerilla suit and went out, asked the press "
What's all the fuss about?", and walked away without anyone knowing. He decided to leave the organization because, "
It had evolved into something that I couldn't believe in. When you're doing this job, you have to be all in."
Asked about Girardi, Cashman said that Joe was clearly the better option. "
In all my years, Joe Girardi was our best coach. It was an easy call."
Brian Cashman's first reaction to the Joba Chamberlain bug incident was that "the umpire would call the bug spray a foreign substance." Epstein had the line of the night, remarking [in response to the questioner] that "
It took a lot of money to get those bugs from Africa to Cleveland, trust me." Brian Cashman was not so funny, saying that the "
The Yankees were not mentally strong enough to play through it. You didn't see the other guys swatting at flies so much. It was unfortunate." Subtle shot at Joba Chamberlain, or at the Yankee infield?
On the Yankee retired numbers, Cashman said that they were trying to come up with some kind of uniform standard over the next couple of years. The Yankees will have a lot of beloved, successful players, but "
We're seriously going to have players playing this year with numbers in the 70s. In the regular season."
Cashman wasn't so rosy about Bernie Williams. He seemed to imply that he was spending too much time recording music over the last 3 years of his career. He was playing poorly, and he felt that Torre was giving him too much playing time over Melky. The original plan all along had been for Bernie to retire after 2006, but Williams complicated things by deciding that he wanted to play one more years. "
If we had done that, Shelley Duncan would never have emerged because there wouldn't have been a spot for him."
I then asked them about the growth of blogs on the internet. It's a subject very close to me, obviously, and Peter Gammons' article about blogging last week was in my mind. Theo responded that "
I read a lot of blogs. Mostly political blogs, but sports blogs too. I generally support them, but one phenomena bothers me. Sometimes some rumor will come out and the blogs will take it and run with it, with no fact checking or anything." Of course, I'd argue that the mainstream media is pretty irresponsible with the rumor mill too, but I agree generally with Epstein. Hopefully, we're better than that at Pending Pinstripes. Cashman went to answer my question, but the moderator had already moved on to the next one. He looked eager - I'm interested as to what he was going to say. Brian Cashman seems to me like the kind of person who might read quite a bit.
Cashman mentioned point-blank, "
Damon wasn't in shape. That's why he had a terrible first half." He also said that Johnny would be in shape coming into this season and that he'll be our primary left fielder, and the Yankees are expecting a rebound year. He said that he had a "
Long term relationship with Hal Steinbrenner."
Theo told an interesting story. He was traveling on the road in 2006. Tim Wakefield had just thrown 6 passed balls and 3 wild pitches to Josh Bard. Players came to him talking about how the clubhouse was being torn apart, people were nerve-wracked, and "
Bard's in the corner in the fettle position sucking his thumb." He made the trade for Mirabelli that night - and got fleeced in a moment of panic. He'll never make a trade from the road that quickly again. He also said that Jon Lester is finally healthy and will make a big contribution in 2008.
Asked about the Yankee pitching crunch, Cashman said that "
Joba will definitely have an innings cap. The young pitchers - all of them - are going to have to earn their way. They'll get ticketed for Scranton if they don't earn it in spring training." He's counting on a lot of innings out of Mike Mussina. He also said that Jeff Karstens and Kei Igawa will be in the mix with Kennedy, Chamberlain, and Hughes for the pitching spots. It seemed to me like he implied that 1 or 2 of the Big 3 will start the season in the minors, for innings purposes.
That's about it. It was a good night. Cashman came off as very hard-nosed to me. No B.S. Theo might be the most charismatic man in baseball right now. The emphasis was all night about building a team from the farm system. Cashman made it clear that he didn't have complete say over all things, but he makes very strong recommendation that are pro-farm.
